The Boys From The County Cork lyrics and guitar chords
Irish Folk Song about the boys from Co. Cork about how great they were in battle-Recorded by The Clancy Brothers, The McNultyS, Other rebel songs from Co. Cork include The Third West Cork Brigade Song which was made famous by ballad singer Declan Hunt .
You've [G] read in history's pages
The [C] heroes of great [G] fame
The deeds they done, the battles won
And [D] how they made their name
But the [G] boys that mad the history
For the [C] orange, white and [G] green
Were the [C] boys who died in [G] Dublin Town
In [D] nineteen [G] sixteen
[chorus]
So meet the boys from Kerry
And meet the boys form Clare
From Dublin, Wicklow, Donegal
And the boys of old Kildare
Some came from a land beyond the sea
From Boston and New York
But the boys who beat the Black and Tans
Were the boys from the County Cork
Now Cork gave us Mick Sweeney
A martyr for to die
And Wicklow gave us Dwyer
In days so long gone by
And Dublin gave us Padraig Pearse
McBride and Cathal Brugha
And America gave us de Valera
To lead old Ireland through
President Eamon de Valera interview on Irish Independance And The Irish Language
The city of Dublin is Ireland's capital. And at the center of Dublin stands leinster house. It contains our national art gallery. . . Our national library. . . And our national museum.
It is also the home of Irish government. The national broadcasting company presents A conversation with a leading statesman of the republic of Ireland - the honorable Eamon de Valera, And professor Curtis baker Bradford, visiting lecturer in American literature at trinity college Dublin. Inside Leinster house you'll find the chamber where the Dail meet. The Dail is our house of representatives. Inside Leinster house is also the senate chamber and a number of offices including this one. It seems to me, Mr. De Valera, that I've really found the heart of Ireland.
Could you tell me the present population of Ireland, Mr. De Valera? Four and one third millions i think. And how large is the country? We were always told as children that it was the size of lake superior. I believe that's still in your geography books. I've heard my children mention that. I haven't looked at these books in recent times. Irish is spoken here by a good many people.
I wonder, do you speak Irish? Some, yes. And where did you learn the language, sir? I learned it mainly in the gaelic league. I didn't have it from my childhood, as you know i was born in the united states. And though i came to Ireland at the age of two and a half, still i didn't learn the language. It was spoken by my grandma and people of that generation but the next generation lost the language like me. Could you say something in Irish for us so we can hear how the language sounds? (speaking Gaelic) and that means?
Woe to him who doesn't follow the advice of a good woman. Very gallant, in the Irish temperament. Are you always gallant to the ladies? Oh, i wouldn't say that. We have proverbs in the opposite direction. For example: (speaking Gaelic) If you wish to publicize anything tell it to a woman as a secret. Well, i think that's true in all languages. I wonder if you could tell us a little about the Gaelic league?
Well, the Gaelic league was founded i think back in 1893. Its purpose was getting people to realize The importance of the language, to learn it and restore it before it was too late. You see, the language is spoken traditionally and continuously for generations in certain parts of the country. The language movement is very closely tied in with the movement for Irish independence, is it not? That is so, modern national researchers may date it Back to the establishment of the Gaelic league. I wonder if you could just go over some of the principles Advanced in Irish history beginning with those that led to the easter rising of 1916?
Well, of course, to start with as i have said you had the establishment of the Gaelic league which had people nationally conscious, and then you had The failure of the home rule movement; the British government having got the support Of the British people in the first instance and then the British parliament and the British government Feared to put the home rule bill, of 1912 i think it was, introduced into operation. Then you had resistance to that bill in the north in Belfast And the formation of the Carson volunteers. And down here that was answered by the. . .
Well, not so much answered, but there was a parallel movement Down here where the Irish volunteers were formed. And in 1916 there was the uprising. What were the principal events of the uprising, sir? Just a few of them. Well, it was concentrated mainly in Dublin. You had the proclamation of the republic From the post office here. And that's right in the center of the city.
That's right in the center, yes, and then after that there was the surrender and later you had the Re-establishment of these three organizations: the volunteers in 1917, next you had the formation Of the paid political movement in that period, 1917, The sinn fein movement which resulted in getting an overwhelming vote for Irish independence And the general elections of 1918. Did you play a part in the easter rising, Mr. De Valera? Yes, i was a commandant of a certain area here in the city. I know you were captured and then released.
What happened then? Well, see, there was the reorganization in 1917 of The volunteers, there was the Sinn Fein organization, There was the elections of 1918, then there was the meeting of the elected members here, There was an overwhelming majority in favor of the establishment of the republic, Then you had the members who were elected meeting here in dublin and proclaiming The independence of the country and setting up a government. And I believe, sir, if my memory serves me correctly, that you were elected president Of the provisional Irish government.
Well, i don't like that word "provisional". We were elected by the duly elected Representatives of the country. We were a government which was founded democratically On the vote of the people and on the vote of their elected representatives in parliament so we were the elected And democratically formed government Of the people of this country. And i believe it was at that point that you returned To the united states.
I was elected president in 1919 and then about June of that year I went to the united states with two objectives. One was to seek official recognition for the republic That had been declared, and the other was to float a loan to finance the government of the republic. How were you welcomed in America, Mr. De Valera? Oh, everywhere our cause was received with great sympathy By very large audiences in all the principal cities of the united states. Was your mission successful?
Well, so far as the loan was concerned we got Something like over six million dollars subscribed and from that point of view can be regarded as a success. As far as recognition was concerned we didn't succeed in getting official recognition but the Resolution was rescinded and resolutions of various state legislatures in favor of Ireland and There was a very, very great feeling in the united states That Ireland should have the right to self determination and that Ireland had exercised self determination And that the right which had been promised by president Winston should be accorded. Were you alone on your mission? No, i had a number of colleagues in fact, but my nearest colleague,
The one that was closest to me was Mr. Boland. You see his picture there on the mantlepiece. And whose picture is that? That's Padraig Pearse [ SONG ], our first president, Commander in chief of the republican forces in Eastwick, 1916. What happened to him, Mr. De Valera? He was shot following the surrender.
And i understand you too were sentenced to death. Yes, my sentence was commuted. And a few years later American newspapers ran captions "is Mr. De Valera a candidate for the presidency of the united states? " Newspaper men must have their jokes. That was because i was campaigning in the united states at the same time as the presidential Election campaign was in full progress.
Is that briefcase the one you had with you, sir? It looks old enough. No. This is an old friend indeed; it's 20 years old, but it's not the one i had In the united states of America. If you are interested in that i think i can show you The actual case that i had in the united states. This is the one I had in the united states; I had it during 1919 to '21 there,
And i had it in negotiations in London and i had it in subsequent visits to the united states. It's kind of a souvenir of your trips. Well, to a large extent it is a souvenir. But this is the briefcase you use. Yes, this is the one that i ordinarily use. As i told you, i had it over twenty years. I got the idea when i was at the league of nations and i saw some members of the French delegation, I think particularly president auriol. He used to have a case like this and he was able to
Take out the papers and work on it without putting it aside and disturbing anybody so i thought the idea a good one And i got this case made when i came back. This is very handy. You don't have to push it about or anything. You can take the different papers out from different departments and leave it there And it's ready for action at any time. I suppose that case has seen many important documents Connected with Irish history. In recent times it has seen some undoubtedly, but we have had important papers in them
And some that weren't so important. Well, in your lifetime, Mr. De Valera, You've seen many of Ireland's serious problems solved. I wonder if there are serious problems remaining? Oh yes, there are. There is first of all the problem of the Restoration of our language to be the spoken language of our people. I've referred to that already.
And then there is the problem of restoring The unity of our country, the problem of partition as it's commonly called. As you know a portion of our country was cut off. Six of the 32 counties of the national territory Were cut off by a British act of parliament in 1920. And we are naturally anxious to bring about The restoration of the unity of the country as a whole. As i understand it the Irish constitution provides for. .
. Oh yes, provision was made. We regard the whole of Ireland as the national territory. It has been a natural entity. It has been national territory for thousands of years. The country was one unit until 1920. But you consider partition merely an Irish problem? It seems to me that in recent times many countries have been divided, often against their will - Usually against their will.
So it seems it is a very facile solution for statesmen When they have a problem like that to pretend there's a minority problem or other reason to cut off a portion of the country. But usually it solves nothing. It doesn't solve minority problems very often because It creates two minority problems instead of one. It doesn't lead to a permanent peace. You see it today. You have the case of Germany, you have the case of Poland, You have the case of Palestine.
And Korea. Korea, of course, and now Indochina. And they're a purely temporary expedience that lead to no final solutions. So that I've been on every occasion this question Of forced petition for countries as a solution. Do you see a solution for the particularly irish problem of partition? I've suggested solutions more than once. I've said we can have an all Ireland parliament here. Where they have a majority up in the northeastern portion
Of the country they could have the present parliament as a local parliament. And they could have full, proportional representation in a united Ireland. You see one of the difficulties is that the portion cut off doesn't represent the areas where There is a local majority who desire to be cut off. The fact is that the greater part of, well, Half the area which is the area immediately adjoining us, they want to be with us. So if there was a division of this country in accordance with political opinion, the boundary would not run as it runs at present And the solutions we have suggested seem to be the natural ones. All it would require will be a transference to an all ireland parliament of the powers which are
At present retained in the Westminster parliament. Mr. De Valera, many Americans, and not only Americans of Irish origin, have been interested in the aspirations of the Irish nation. It isn't in recent times alone that Americans have shown An interest in Ireland. In Washington's time, when there was also a struggle For independence here, Washington addressed a message to those who were struggling. I had it repeated many a time by our friends in the united states.
I don't know if I can repeat it now, i think it ran something like this: "patriots of Ireland be strong in hope. Your cause is identical with mine. You are calumniated in your day. I was misrepresented by the loyalists of my day. Had I failed, the scaffold would be my doom. Now my enemies do me honor. Had I failed, I would have deserved the same honor. I was true to my cause even when victory had fled.
In that i merited success. You must do likewise. " that was i think a very encouraging message To our people at that time and I must say it was a heartening message Every time i heard it in the united states afterwards. A little earlier we were talking about Some of the difficulties Ireland faces today. I wonder what solution you see to these problems. How would you like to see Ireland develop
In the immediate future? Well, two things: what is likely to happen and what i would like to see happen. Naturally i would like to see the material resources developed here so as to provide a livelihood For as many as possible so that our people would not have to go abroad for their livelihood. That would mean the development of natural resources, utilization of our natural resources to the full. The development of our industries - that has taken place. How far we can by these means provide the livelihoods That are necessary is another question because our area is limited and our resources are limited. But there is a direction in which we can make up for
What we lose or we lack in the material line, And that is we have spiritual resources which can be Of great value and have proved of great value in the past. I've been impressed since i came to Ireland a few weeks ago by the religious freedom that exists here. Well, we have a tradition of religious toleration. As you know we respect all people's consciences And views. . .
Religious views. I think in 1871 the chief rabbi of the jews speaking here Said he was delighted to come to Ireland because it was the one country in which His people had not been persecuted. And in every occasion in which the really Irish Got control of affairs, well, their first act was to Proclaim religious toleration so that today we are simply marching the footsteps of those who went before us. I wonder, sir, if you would be willing to say just a word about Ireland's role in world affairs now, The difficult problem of a small nation in a world dominated by great powers.
The small nations have great interest in peace. They have nothing to gain by wars And have everything to lose so there will always be an influence for peace. In your long and active life you must have met many impressive people. Well, of course i did. . . Quite a number of outstanding statesmen in Europe But i prefer not to comment on these.
Many of them are still alive. But the person who interested me most Was one i never met - Ghandi. I regretted very much that i didn't meet him when he was Here in our neighborhood on one occasion, but I've admired him for the way in which He led his people over a long period. And also for the sacrifices he suffered Which he made for the welfare of his people. There's no doubt that he was perhaps the most
Outstanding figure during the period that i have been in public life. Mr. De Valera, various people have compared you with Lincoln from time to time. I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that there are parallels between you and Lincon. Oh, I've had Americans say that, but for myself I find it difficult to see the point of comparison. I'd be very flattered indeed if i thought i had any Of the qualities of Lincon. He was a great president
And a splendid leader of his country. And above all, as history records it, he was a good man. I was interested while reading a biography of you about a story that it told there to the effect that You disclaim much knowledge of politics. Well, it depends what you mean by politics. I think politics have been defined by somebody as the science of the practical. To me the chief aim of men in political life Should be to adapt means to desirable ends. To have noble ideas and try to get the practical means then to achieve these ideas.
Americans, like people throughout the world, are anxious about the future and the threat of war. Has your long experience shown you a method of solving political problems without resort to war? Well, we're all anxious naturally about the situation. The means other than violence have often been put forward before. That is judicial determination of disputes where possible, and where that is not possible, arbitration. But you want to have common agreement on these methods of determining disputes And unfortunately we haven't got it. If you haven't these means you're always In danger of attempts to solve irritating
And exasperating problems by force. But we ought to have been taught now first of all That force does not get a final solution. And with modern weapons it will be very hard To distinguish victor from vanquished, I fear, if force is used. While we've been talking, sir, i've noticed that rosette on your lapel. Oh, my fainne. If you look, it's not a rosette. It's a simple circle, a simple ring.
The Irish word for it is fainne. And are you prepared for a long story? Certainly, certainly. Well, you probably observed as you went around The streets of Dublin you observed young people, old people too, wearing metal rings. Some are gold and some silver. These are indications that the person who wears them Speaks Irish. The gold one indicates a certain standard
And carries with it for the bearer certain obligations - namely to speak Irish to those who wear a similar ring. The silver also has obligations and indicates a standard not so high that i felt that we needed An order that beginners might use whatever degree of fluency they had acquired might use it, That there should be a mark which would indicate "i know some irish, i'm very anxious to speak it. Will you please speak it to me? " a sort of third order some might say. So suggested that we should have something - gold costs money, silver costs money - And i thought that the cheapest thing someone could get was just plain embroidery. Anybody can come and get a tailor to put it on their coat and each time they order a suit they can have it embroidered.
The origin of it was rather interesting. I was particularly satisfied in my own mind that the women Would all do it very readily because i thought they were able to do it with a needle. But some friends warned me that they had many dresses in very many colors and it wasn't such an easy thing As I, a man, would think. However, i held on to my idea and i tried to get Some people to make it, embroider it, and i'm afraid the first samples i got were not encouraging. It was not so easy to make a good circle. However, i wasn't to be put off so i went to one of my
Daughters in law and i took off my coat and i said "could you put a ring on that for me? Could you embroider a ring? " so she said "oh, certainly" and i was hoping that There would be a failure just for fun but to my amazement She had a fountain pen in her hand like this, she took off the cap and put it down in a powder puff, I think they call it a compact, and she put it onto the coat, got a very nice circle in white And proceeded at once to embroider this ring. So you see it is simply a sign That one speaks the Irish language, one is anxious to be spoken to in the Irish language
And it helps to get the language spoken generally. Mr. De Valera, i sincerely hope that Ireland Will be able to fulfil her destiny as you foresee it. Well, there's an old irish book - there's a couplet I think it runs something like this: (speaking Gaelic) And that in modern Irish would be something like: (speaking irish) And in English? In English it would run something i think like this:
Greater than all telling in every age has been God's counsel and providence For virgin Ireland.
The city of Dublin is Ireland's capital. And at the center of Dublin stands leinster house. It contains our national art gallery. . . Our national library. . . And our national museum.
It is also the home of Irish government. The national broadcasting company presents A conversation with a leading statesman of the republic of Ireland - the honorable Eamon de Valera, And professor Curtis baker Bradford, visiting lecturer in American literature at trinity college Dublin. Inside Leinster house you'll find the chamber where the Dail meet. The Dail is our house of representatives. Inside Leinster house is also the senate chamber and a number of offices including this one. It seems to me, Mr. De Valera, that I've really found the heart of Ireland.
Could you tell me the present population of Ireland, Mr. De Valera? Four and one third millions i think. And how large is the country? We were always told as children that it was the size of lake superior. I believe that's still in your geography books. I've heard my children mention that. I haven't looked at these books in recent times. Irish is spoken here by a good many people.
I wonder, do you speak Irish? Some, yes. And where did you learn the language, sir? I learned it mainly in the gaelic league. I didn't have it from my childhood, as you know i was born in the united states. And though i came to Ireland at the age of two and a half, still i didn't learn the language. It was spoken by my grandma and people of that generation but the next generation lost the language like me. Could you say something in Irish for us so we can hear how the language sounds? (speaking Gaelic) and that means?
Woe to him who doesn't follow the advice of a good woman. Very gallant, in the Irish temperament. Are you always gallant to the ladies? Oh, i wouldn't say that. We have proverbs in the opposite direction. For example: (speaking Gaelic) If you wish to publicize anything tell it to a woman as a secret. Well, i think that's true in all languages. I wonder if you could tell us a little about the Gaelic league?
Well, the Gaelic league was founded i think back in 1893. Its purpose was getting people to realize The importance of the language, to learn it and restore it before it was too late. You see, the language is spoken traditionally and continuously for generations in certain parts of the country. The language movement is very closely tied in with the movement for Irish independence, is it not? That is so, modern national researchers may date it Back to the establishment of the Gaelic league. I wonder if you could just go over some of the principles Advanced in Irish history beginning with those that led to the easter rising of 1916?
Well, of course, to start with as i have said you had the establishment of the Gaelic league which had people nationally conscious, and then you had The failure of the home rule movement; the British government having got the support Of the British people in the first instance and then the British parliament and the British government Feared to put the home rule bill, of 1912 i think it was, introduced into operation. Then you had resistance to that bill in the north in Belfast And the formation of the Carson volunteers. And down here that was answered by the. . .
Well, not so much answered, but there was a parallel movement Down here where the Irish volunteers were formed. And in 1916 there was the uprising. What were the principal events of the uprising, sir? Just a few of them. Well, it was concentrated mainly in Dublin. You had the proclamation of the republic From the post office here. And that's right in the center of the city.
That's right in the center, yes, and then after that there was the surrender and later you had the Re-establishment of these three organizations: the volunteers in 1917, next you had the formation Of the paid political movement in that period, 1917, The sinn fein movement which resulted in getting an overwhelming vote for Irish independence And the general elections of 1918. Did you play a part in the easter rising, Mr. De Valera? Yes, i was a commandant of a certain area here in the city. I know you were captured and then released.
What happened then? Well, see, there was the reorganization in 1917 of The volunteers, there was the Sinn Fein organization, There was the elections of 1918, then there was the meeting of the elected members here, There was an overwhelming majority in favor of the establishment of the republic, Then you had the members who were elected meeting here in dublin and proclaiming The independence of the country and setting up a government. And I believe, sir, if my memory serves me correctly, that you were elected president Of the provisional Irish government.
Well, i don't like that word "provisional". We were elected by the duly elected Representatives of the country. We were a government which was founded democratically On the vote of the people and on the vote of their elected representatives in parliament so we were the elected And democratically formed government Of the people of this country. And i believe it was at that point that you returned To the united states.
I was elected president in 1919 and then about June of that year I went to the united states with two objectives. One was to seek official recognition for the republic That had been declared, and the other was to float a loan to finance the government of the republic. How were you welcomed in America, Mr. De Valera? Oh, everywhere our cause was received with great sympathy By very large audiences in all the principal cities of the united states. Was your mission successful?
Well, so far as the loan was concerned we got Something like over six million dollars subscribed and from that point of view can be regarded as a success. As far as recognition was concerned we didn't succeed in getting official recognition but the Resolution was rescinded and resolutions of various state legislatures in favor of Ireland and There was a very, very great feeling in the united states That Ireland should have the right to self determination and that Ireland had exercised self determination And that the right which had been promised by president Winston should be accorded. Were you alone on your mission? No, i had a number of colleagues in fact, but my nearest colleague,
The one that was closest to me was Mr. Boland. You see his picture there on the mantlepiece. And whose picture is that? That's Padraig Pearse [ SONG ], our first president, Commander in chief of the republican forces in Eastwick, 1916. What happened to him, Mr. De Valera? He was shot following the surrender.
And i understand you too were sentenced to death. Yes, my sentence was commuted. And a few years later American newspapers ran captions "is Mr. De Valera a candidate for the presidency of the united states? " Newspaper men must have their jokes. That was because i was campaigning in the united states at the same time as the presidential Election campaign was in full progress.
Is that briefcase the one you had with you, sir? It looks old enough. No. This is an old friend indeed; it's 20 years old, but it's not the one i had In the united states of America. If you are interested in that i think i can show you The actual case that i had in the united states. This is the one I had in the united states; I had it during 1919 to '21 there,
And i had it in negotiations in London and i had it in subsequent visits to the united states. It's kind of a souvenir of your trips. Well, to a large extent it is a souvenir. But this is the briefcase you use. Yes, this is the one that i ordinarily use. As i told you, i had it over twenty years. I got the idea when i was at the league of nations and i saw some members of the French delegation, I think particularly president auriol. He used to have a case like this and he was able to
Take out the papers and work on it without putting it aside and disturbing anybody so i thought the idea a good one And i got this case made when i came back. This is very handy. You don't have to push it about or anything. You can take the different papers out from different departments and leave it there And it's ready for action at any time. I suppose that case has seen many important documents Connected with Irish history. In recent times it has seen some undoubtedly, but we have had important papers in them
And some that weren't so important. Well, in your lifetime, Mr. De Valera, You've seen many of Ireland's serious problems solved. I wonder if there are serious problems remaining? Oh yes, there are. There is first of all the problem of the Restoration of our language to be the spoken language of our people. I've referred to that already.
And then there is the problem of restoring The unity of our country, the problem of partition as it's commonly called. As you know a portion of our country was cut off. Six of the 32 counties of the national territory Were cut off by a British act of parliament in 1920. And we are naturally anxious to bring about The restoration of the unity of the country as a whole. As i understand it the Irish constitution provides for. .
. Oh yes, provision was made. We regard the whole of Ireland as the national territory. It has been a natural entity. It has been national territory for thousands of years. The country was one unit until 1920. But you consider partition merely an Irish problem? It seems to me that in recent times many countries have been divided, often against their will - Usually against their will.
So it seems it is a very facile solution for statesmen When they have a problem like that to pretend there's a minority problem or other reason to cut off a portion of the country. But usually it solves nothing. It doesn't solve minority problems very often because It creates two minority problems instead of one. It doesn't lead to a permanent peace. You see it today. You have the case of Germany, you have the case of Poland, You have the case of Palestine.
And Korea. Korea, of course, and now Indochina. And they're a purely temporary expedience that lead to no final solutions. So that I've been on every occasion this question Of forced petition for countries as a solution. Do you see a solution for the particularly irish problem of partition? I've suggested solutions more than once. I've said we can have an all Ireland parliament here. Where they have a majority up in the northeastern portion
Of the country they could have the present parliament as a local parliament. And they could have full, proportional representation in a united Ireland. You see one of the difficulties is that the portion cut off doesn't represent the areas where There is a local majority who desire to be cut off. The fact is that the greater part of, well, Half the area which is the area immediately adjoining us, they want to be with us. So if there was a division of this country in accordance with political opinion, the boundary would not run as it runs at present And the solutions we have suggested seem to be the natural ones. All it would require will be a transference to an all ireland parliament of the powers which are
At present retained in the Westminster parliament. Mr. De Valera, many Americans, and not only Americans of Irish origin, have been interested in the aspirations of the Irish nation. It isn't in recent times alone that Americans have shown An interest in Ireland. In Washington's time, when there was also a struggle For independence here, Washington addressed a message to those who were struggling. I had it repeated many a time by our friends in the united states.
I don't know if I can repeat it now, i think it ran something like this: "patriots of Ireland be strong in hope. Your cause is identical with mine. You are calumniated in your day. I was misrepresented by the loyalists of my day. Had I failed, the scaffold would be my doom. Now my enemies do me honor. Had I failed, I would have deserved the same honor. I was true to my cause even when victory had fled.
In that i merited success. You must do likewise. " that was i think a very encouraging message To our people at that time and I must say it was a heartening message Every time i heard it in the united states afterwards. A little earlier we were talking about Some of the difficulties Ireland faces today. I wonder what solution you see to these problems. How would you like to see Ireland develop
In the immediate future? Well, two things: what is likely to happen and what i would like to see happen. Naturally i would like to see the material resources developed here so as to provide a livelihood For as many as possible so that our people would not have to go abroad for their livelihood. That would mean the development of natural resources, utilization of our natural resources to the full. The development of our industries - that has taken place. How far we can by these means provide the livelihoods That are necessary is another question because our area is limited and our resources are limited. But there is a direction in which we can make up for
What we lose or we lack in the material line, And that is we have spiritual resources which can be Of great value and have proved of great value in the past. I've been impressed since i came to Ireland a few weeks ago by the religious freedom that exists here. Well, we have a tradition of religious toleration. As you know we respect all people's consciences And views. . .
Religious views. I think in 1871 the chief rabbi of the jews speaking here Said he was delighted to come to Ireland because it was the one country in which His people had not been persecuted. And in every occasion in which the really Irish Got control of affairs, well, their first act was to Proclaim religious toleration so that today we are simply marching the footsteps of those who went before us. I wonder, sir, if you would be willing to say just a word about Ireland's role in world affairs now, The difficult problem of a small nation in a world dominated by great powers.
The small nations have great interest in peace. They have nothing to gain by wars And have everything to lose so there will always be an influence for peace. In your long and active life you must have met many impressive people. Well, of course i did. . . Quite a number of outstanding statesmen in Europe But i prefer not to comment on these.
Many of them are still alive. But the person who interested me most Was one i never met - Ghandi. I regretted very much that i didn't meet him when he was Here in our neighborhood on one occasion, but I've admired him for the way in which He led his people over a long period. And also for the sacrifices he suffered Which he made for the welfare of his people. There's no doubt that he was perhaps the most
Outstanding figure during the period that i have been in public life. Mr. De Valera, various people have compared you with Lincoln from time to time. I wonder if it's ever occurred to you that there are parallels between you and Lincon. Oh, I've had Americans say that, but for myself I find it difficult to see the point of comparison. I'd be very flattered indeed if i thought i had any Of the qualities of Lincon. He was a great president
And a splendid leader of his country. And above all, as history records it, he was a good man. I was interested while reading a biography of you about a story that it told there to the effect that You disclaim much knowledge of politics. Well, it depends what you mean by politics. I think politics have been defined by somebody as the science of the practical. To me the chief aim of men in political life Should be to adapt means to desirable ends. To have noble ideas and try to get the practical means then to achieve these ideas.
Americans, like people throughout the world, are anxious about the future and the threat of war. Has your long experience shown you a method of solving political problems without resort to war? Well, we're all anxious naturally about the situation. The means other than violence have often been put forward before. That is judicial determination of disputes where possible, and where that is not possible, arbitration. But you want to have common agreement on these methods of determining disputes And unfortunately we haven't got it. If you haven't these means you're always In danger of attempts to solve irritating
And exasperating problems by force. But we ought to have been taught now first of all That force does not get a final solution. And with modern weapons it will be very hard To distinguish victor from vanquished, I fear, if force is used. While we've been talking, sir, i've noticed that rosette on your lapel. Oh, my fainne. If you look, it's not a rosette. It's a simple circle, a simple ring.
The Irish word for it is fainne. And are you prepared for a long story? Certainly, certainly. Well, you probably observed as you went around The streets of Dublin you observed young people, old people too, wearing metal rings. Some are gold and some silver. These are indications that the person who wears them Speaks Irish. The gold one indicates a certain standard
And carries with it for the bearer certain obligations - namely to speak Irish to those who wear a similar ring. The silver also has obligations and indicates a standard not so high that i felt that we needed An order that beginners might use whatever degree of fluency they had acquired might use it, That there should be a mark which would indicate "i know some irish, i'm very anxious to speak it. Will you please speak it to me? " a sort of third order some might say. So suggested that we should have something - gold costs money, silver costs money - And i thought that the cheapest thing someone could get was just plain embroidery. Anybody can come and get a tailor to put it on their coat and each time they order a suit they can have it embroidered.
The origin of it was rather interesting. I was particularly satisfied in my own mind that the women Would all do it very readily because i thought they were able to do it with a needle. But some friends warned me that they had many dresses in very many colors and it wasn't such an easy thing As I, a man, would think. However, i held on to my idea and i tried to get Some people to make it, embroider it, and i'm afraid the first samples i got were not encouraging. It was not so easy to make a good circle. However, i wasn't to be put off so i went to one of my
Daughters in law and i took off my coat and i said "could you put a ring on that for me? Could you embroider a ring? " so she said "oh, certainly" and i was hoping that There would be a failure just for fun but to my amazement She had a fountain pen in her hand like this, she took off the cap and put it down in a powder puff, I think they call it a compact, and she put it onto the coat, got a very nice circle in white And proceeded at once to embroider this ring. So you see it is simply a sign That one speaks the Irish language, one is anxious to be spoken to in the Irish language
And it helps to get the language spoken generally. Mr. De Valera, i sincerely hope that Ireland Will be able to fulfil her destiny as you foresee it. Well, there's an old irish book - there's a couplet I think it runs something like this: (speaking Gaelic) And that in modern Irish would be something like: (speaking irish) And in English? In English it would run something i think like this:
Greater than all telling in every age has been God's counsel and providence For virgin Ireland.
